Prabhupada: Plan is that we have got woods. Cut the woods, make small cottages, and engage them for growing fruits, flowers, grains, and make the complete arrangement nicely. Water...
Hari-sauri: Irrigation.
Prabhupada: In this way make it ever green.
Bhagavan: There was a question about the cows, that at what point should the calf be separated from the mother. Because sometimes when the calf is separated, the mother, she cries.
Prabhupada: No, they should not be taken away.
Bhagavan: Shouldn't be.
Hari-sauri: I think in all our farms they do that.
Bhagavan: I heard in New Vrindaban they took them away very early.
Hari-sauri: The problem is that the calves drink so much milk that they become very sick, so they have to separate.
Prabhupada: Therefore they should not be allowed always. Once in a day, that's all.
Hari-sauri: Oh.
Prabhupada: Not too much allowed, but once. At least while milking they should be allowed to drink little milk, and that will encourage the mother to deliver more milk.
Hari-sauri: Oh. At the same time they're milking the cow, the calf can come.
Prabhupada: Yes. They can bring it milk. And while milking, the calf may be standing before the mother.
Hari-sauri: They do that in India.
Prabhupada: So she will not be sorry. Completely separation is not good. And after birth at least for one week the calf should be allowed. Because after this giving birth the milk is not fit for human consumption. The calf should not be allowed to eat more, but at the same time the mother must see once, twice, then it will be all right. Of course, we are born in big, big towns, we do not know, but I know this is the process. In Allahabad I was keeping cow, there was facility.
Morning Walk Around Grounds
Paris, August 2, 1976
Prabhupada: It requires much water. Then sow grains. (break)
Devotee (1): This is from the previous owner, Prabhupada. He's agreed to take the grapes away. He is simply finding another place for them. It's part of the contract we made with him that he had to move them.
Prabhupada: This land?
Bhagavan: That is the proprietor's land on this side.
Prabhupada: And he does not find any land to move the grapes.
Bhagavan: What was that, Srila Prabhupada? He has so much land?
Devotee (1): There is a law by which it's very difficult to move grapes anywhere. So he's trying to get permission from the maire to do it. (break)
Bhagavan: ...built a big factory here to engage people who were socially misfit, and he was making all kinds of plastic toys. So when we moved in we suggested that he help manufacture Spiritual Sky. So now almost his whole factory is being used. Many young Indian boys who have come to France looking for something, they had no money. So he has employed them here. So they're working, they've brought their families.
Prabhupada: They're established.
Bhagavan: Yes, and he's building them houses. (breaks)
Prabhupada: I think it's unusual in Europe.
Bhagavan: It's like this every July and August, very sunny. During these months most people in Europe come to France. (break) ...storage house.
Prabhupada: What does he manufacture?
Bhagavan: Manufactures boats and plastic things.
Prabhupada: What is box?
Devotee (2): Spiritual Sky, incense boxes.
Bhagavan: It's a quarry for stone. The same kind of stone that the chateau is built from.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Bhagavan: This is the factory here.
Prabhupada: Factory of the proprietor? The proprietor?
Bhagavan: Yes, and he rents to Spiritual Sky.
Devotee (3): These incense packs, we are reorganizing the stock now.
Prabhupada: Where you are selling?
Devotee (3): Everywhere in France. We're doing now also Germany and also Holland and Belgium.
Prabhupada: Where it is printed?
Hari-sauri: These are all from the U.S. I think.
Devotee (3): No, it's from France. We started a few months ago. Everything now is organized in France.
Prabhupada: These are all essential oils?
Devotee (3): Yes, this is all perfume here. We have pure sandalwood from India. It is getting very expensive now.
Devotee (2): This is our Indian package, Radha-Krsna.
Devotee (4): We're changing the design on this package, we have Gopal Krsna.
Prabhupada: But it is nice, why you are changing it? Unnecessary spending is not... (break) ...the sticks?
Devotee (3): From China.
Prabhupada: What are in these bags?
Devotee (3): We're specializing in henna.
Prabhupada: Honey?
Devotee (3): Henna. We're going to produce ten different coloring henna. (break) ...leaf of acacia making noncoloring hena.
Prabhupada: Where you get?
Devotee (3): This is coming from India I think. But there's much acacia in France, and so we're going to pick it ourselves. This will make us a producer, which will increase our profit.
Bhagavan: Spiritual Sky is paying right now almost eighty thousand dollars a year to the association here.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Devotee (3): This is..., we're doing a cheaper line called Scented Garden, and the more expensive, this is for the cheaper customers.
Prabhupada: This is scent?
Devotee (4): They're different.
Devotee (5): This is the cheaper oil. (laughter)
Devotee (3): This belongs to the previous owner of the chateau. He let us use these machines. He also helps us make very nice stands for displaying. These here are some for putting in the coloring, make them different colors. These come from India also.
Prabhupada: What is this, sand?
Devotee (3): This belongs to the owner. (break)
Bhagavan: It stays light until quarter to eleven here.
Prabhupada: Like Moscow also. I was there in June or July(?). Sarasvati, you like this place?
Hari-sauri: You like this place?
Sarasvati: Yes.
Prabhupada: What is this?
Devotee (3): This is bath oil, putting in the bath. Sandalwood. And this is the more expensive quality. (laughter) This is actually pure sandalwood, a little diluted.
Prabhupada: Jagadisa's son?
Bhagavan: Nirmala.
Hari-sauri: You want to ride in the palanquin?
Prabhupada: Yes. We can sit down on the plank... (break) Snake here?
Devotee (5) : There are some, yes.
Devotee (2): There's a big one in the forest. It has not got any water in it, very big.
Devotees: Snake? (laughter)
Bhagavan: He thought you said lake.
Prabhupada: Python?
Hari-sauri: He thought you said a lake. So he said there's a big one in the forest. But you were talking about a snake.
Prabhupada: Snake, yes. There is a big snake here? (laughter)
Hari-sauri: No. He was talking about a lake, for water.
Bhagavan: Kirtana?
Prabhupada: Yes. (end)
Room Conversation
Paris, August 2, 1976
Prabhupada: Jaya. So Aniruddha, you are going to stay here? You are going to stay? That's nice. He's a big devotee. He says, "I am big devotee." So, chant Hare Krsna. (devotees and children chant in unison) (aside to Hari-sauri:) Boil with four times water.
Hari-sauri: Boil?
Prabhupada: With four times water. And when it is (indistinct).
Hari-sauri: All boiled down.
Prabhupada: Then squeeze it.
Hari-sauri: When do you want it? Now? (chanting becomes louder and faster, clapping)
Prabhupada: (chanting ends) Come on. (children laughing) Distribute to the fathers, mothers. Give him one more, he has.... All right, give them first.
Devotee (1): They came from London, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Devotee (1): They came to Paris to see you, and when they learned that you were here, they came all the way here to...
Prabhupada: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Maharaja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Krsna. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Krsna, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership. Another chapter begins. So they do not know how these subtle laws of material nature is working to give us opportunity to become master according to our idea, false idea. And we are actually suffering, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as trees, sometimes as dog. So the mastership cannot be attained. That is not possible. In the false idea to become master we are becoming slaves of the laws of material nature. This is real position, and that is suffering. So when one comes to this understanding, that we are not master, we are servant, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate. After many, many births, if by chance one gets the association of the servant of the Lord, then he understands that he is not master, he's servant of Krsna. And then he surrenders. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Such great soul who has understood that "I am eternal servant of Krsna," he's a very great soul. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Very, very rare to be found. But that is the fact. The sooner we learn that we cannot become master, we are eternal servant of Krsna, let us surrender to Krsna and remain in our own position as servant, then it is perfection of life. Therefore one who surrenders, one who offers.... This is the beginning, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru. Namaskuru. Krsna says namaskuru. Namaskuru means "Just offer your obeisances unto Me." So in the absence of.... Krsna is everywhere, but Krsna sends His representative. So if we begin, offer namaskuru, to the representative, it goes to Krsna, and then gradually, by the grace of Krsna, one becomes Krsna conscious and becomes situated in his own original consciousness, Krsna consciousness, and that is perfection of life. Thank you very much.
Bhagavan: So let us pay our obeisances. (devotees offer obeisances)
Prabhupada: So what is this?
Hari-sauri: What is it? (child whispers "It's a hat") It's a hat.
Prabhupada: Oh? You are just now coming? You have got, Malati? (speaks Hindi with Indian lady) So what is the news of Amster..., what is it?
Hari-sauri: Amsterdam.
Prabhupada: Amsterdam.
Woman devotee: It is very nice. They are preparing for installation of Radha-Krsna on September lst, and otherwise the sankirtana is distributing Bhagavad-gitas, about fifteen hundred a week.
Prabhupada: Accha.
Woman devotee: Between Holland and Belgium, they both speak the same language, so the books are distributed between these two countries.
Prabhupada: Holland and?
Woman devotee: Belgium. Parts of Belgium speaks Dutch, and the other half speak French. So in the Belgium, in the half that speaks Dutch, they are taking many Bhagavad-gitas. Appreciating it very much. And one library, the head of all the libraries, he has taken an interest in your books.
Prabhupada: How's your father?
Woman devotee (2): Um, not as well as you, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Woman devotee (2): He's not as well as yourself.
Prabhupada: He's suffering?
Woman devotee (2): Very much.
Prabhupada: What is the disease?
Woman devotee (2): He's looking after roses in his garden. Oh, um...
Prabhupada: But your father is young man. What is his age?
Woman devotee (2): He's sixty years old.
Prabhupada: Sixty is just like my son. Yes, twenty years difference, father and son. I am eighty, so anyone who is sixty must be like my son. Of course, my first son was born when I was twenty-four, but twenty years, there are many, father. And mother and son, twelve years, thirteen years difference, there are many. So you have come here. Very nice. Stay here. Where is your husband? Bhugarbha is here?
Bhagavan: He's in Germany.
Prabhupada: He has gone German?
Bhagavan: To buy some trucks for traveling.
Prabhupada: He's good preacher. He's now distributing books very nicely. You are also good distributor books. Huh? In the beginning she was distributing nicely. So preaching is our life. The more we preach, the more we are successful. Yare dekha tare kaha `krsna'-upadesa. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's preaching.
amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa
yare dekha, tare kaha `krsna'-upadesa'
This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Every one of you become guru and deliver the residents of your neighborhood. Ei desa. Wherever you are living, just deliver them. Become their guru. How to become guru? It is not difficult. Yare dekha tare kaha `krsna'-upadesa. What Krsna has said instruct them. You simply repeat it, that's all. You become guru. So this should be preached all over the world. You learn from Bhagavad-gita and repeat. You simply say, "Krsna said four things: man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru. `Just always think of Me.' Krsna said. `And just become My devotee. Just worship Me and offer obeisances.' Kindly do these things." So if you can induce one person to do these four things, you become guru. Is there any difficulty? Then you become a devotee of Krsna. How? Always think of Krsna. Worship Krsna and offer obeisances. Here is our temple, please come, offer obeisances. Offer little flower if you can secure. Otherwise, obeisances sufficient. And chant Hare Krsna. You become guru. To inform this message is difficult? Not at all. You may carry the message. If he's fortunate, he'll do it. Even he does not do it, you are carrying the message, you become recognized by Krsna. Na ca tasman manusyesu kascin me priya-krttamah. You are doing sincerely, then you are recognized by Krsna. Just like a canvasser, salesman, goes to the market, tries his best to secure some business. The master sees the report how he has worked. Even though he has not secured a single paisa business, but he has tried to introduce the goods, then he's bona fide(?). He's bona fide(?). Similarly, we have to simply carry the message of Krsna and try to convince people. If one is convinced, it is good, if not, doesn't matter, I am not going to.... Then you are recognized by Krsna. Recognition means you become the dearest servant of Krsna. Then what do you want more? If Krsna recognizes that "You are My most dear servant," then what do you want more? Yare dekha tare kaha `krsna'-upadesa. So this message was to be carried by all Indians. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's desire.
bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara
janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara
This is para-upakara. So all Indians should take up this mission and do welfare activity. That is India's special function. How many devotees are there in Amsterdam?
Woman devotee (1): Fifty.
Prabhupada: Building is very big?
Bhagavan: Yes. Nice building.
Woman devotee (1): There's two buildings, one for the grhasthas behind the temple, and then the asrama for the brahmacaris.
Prabhupada: Rented or purchased?
Woman devotee (1): We own the grhastha asrama, and the temple is rented. It's to our advantage to rent it, for some reason, so they are renting it.
Hari-sauri: You were thinking about walking? It's about 6:15, so this would be a good time if you want to go down.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: All glories to Prabhupada.
Devotee: Haribol! (end)
Room Conversation
Paris, August 2, 1976
Prabhupada: Hmm? You can say.
Harikesa: There are two sons? And a friend asked, one was very dark... (laughter)
Prabhupada: Indian system is, the bridegroom... So when the man went to see the girl, the father called his son, bridegroom's father, "My dear Gauracand, please come here." So he came. He was just like a black negro. And gauracanda means fair complexion. So one of the party came to see. So, "This is in your country gauracanda, so where is kalacanda, can you bring him?" So that is the respectable gentleman, and what is debauch?
Harikesa: Kalacanda means black, very black. Gaura means fair.
Prabhupada: When Gauracand was called, a black negro came. So if Kalacand is called, who will come then? (laughter)
Harikesa: There seems to be such an amazing repertoire of stories and analogies in the Bengali language, isn't there? So many.
Prabhupada: In Bengal the, just like here, so many, black mixed up with white. In Bengal and Madras, so many Dravidian have been mixed up with the Aryan. Therefore in Bengal and Madras you'll find many black.
Hari-sauri: Dravidian?
Prabhupada: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Aryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Aryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, they will be fair complexion. Sudras, black. So if a brahmana becomes black, then he's not accepted as brahmana. Kala bahu (?). And if a sudra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure sudra. Although we do not take very, but, this brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and sudras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.
Hari-sauri: Still, we still met a lot of people in India who are actually following the regulative principles just as a matter of social training. But they're becoming very few now.
Prabhupada: In, actually, in Bengal, Bengal has lost its original culture. In other provinces the brahmana class, they are keeping very strictly the original culture. Even a brahmana would not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife, because woman is considered sudra. The woman, when she becomes the wife of a brahmana, then she is called brahmani, but she's not offered brahminical culture. She remains as sudra. So therefore a strict brahmana does not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife. Still there are in U.P. The wife will arrange for cooking, and he'll sit down and cook dal, capatis. Then he will eat, and whatever remains, that is there, that will be taken by her. But he will not take foodstuff cooked by his even wife. And if there are several brahmanas, so each one of them will cook his own food. In Calcutta, mostly the rich men they used to keep the collector's darwans, they are called darwans. Means guard, policemen, guard. They're all, very big, big brahmana family, they used to take, accept the job. But each of them, even in police, I have seen, they are cooking separately. They take bath thrice, cook their own food, very strictly. The government had to give them a big hall for cooking. So, it will not take much space, say, little space. One small oven and demarcated: "This, you see, is mine, and then I, you get, this is yours, this is yours." So within that space they'll sit down and cook dal, capatis, rice, one vegetable, and cook, and immediately all the utensils will be cleansed and washed, and the space washed and kept. You'd like to eat, they cook so nicely, although simple. And I have got practical experience, if you cook your own food, whatever it may be, it is healthy.
Harikesa: That a fact, yes.
Prabhupada: And if you do it very carefully, then you'll never get disease. Take simple food, neat and clean, you'll not get disease. So everything depends on eating to keep the health proper. But these things can be simplified when the life is simple. If I go to work in office at this time, then so many things become topsy-turvied. But if you depend on yourself, either as a brahmana or ksatriya, you haven't got to depend on others, then you can do timely. Now we have to go fifty miles at least to attend office. In your country at least, this is the system. They are coming from Long Island, Liberty Island. In New York I have seen. Three, four hours to go to work. And again three, four hours to come to home. And work there eight hours. Then what is value? He's shattered. He has no other solace than wine, and he has no other culture. No family, dog friend (laughter) and television idea, that's all. What his life? Every man has got a dog friend because he has no family. Men, women, and television, engagement, I have seen it, all this, in New York.
Hari-sauri: If they do go out, it's just to go and get drunk.
Prabhupada: And still, our landlord in 26 Second Avenue, if there is anything wrong in the apartment, he would personally do it. He could spare money to call a worker. He was alone. I don't think he had any dog, but he was always seeing the television, and when there was some complaint, he would come and work on it. He's landlord. And so many tenant, there is complaint always. Old house. That house was not very good, very old house.
Hari-sauri: There was many stories?
Prabhupada: I think five, six stories.
Hari-sauri: Oh. You just had the shop at the bottom.
Prabhupada: Bottom shop and the first floor, I took my...
Harikesa: With a garden.
Prabhupada: Not a garden, but there was some vegetables.
Hari-sauri: Few plants.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not bad. For me, it was very convenient, come down immediately to my down storefront. And some boys were living in the storefront. There was a sink in the storefront, and for toilet I allowed them sometimes in my bathroom. Not some, only two or one. So he was washing my dishes also. In this way, I was living.
Hari-sauri: That was Mukunda, or...?
Prabhupada: No, that was another boy. He was drunkard. (laughter)
Harikesa: Yogesvara has many pictures of those meetings at 26 Second Avenue, with Hayagriva with the beard and the long hair hitting this... There's pictures of all those meetings, photographs. Of Hayagriva with the beard and long hair hitting the gong next to you.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Long hairs almost everyone. This Umapati was also one of them.
Harikesa: He said he was eating meat up until the point you gave him the beads on the day of initiation.
Prabhupada: Hayagriva.
Harikesa: No, Umapati. He said then, next, from that point he gave up.
Prabhupada: Yes. They were trained up in such a way from the beginning of their life. I have seen small children they give powdered meat mixed with hot water and spoon. Is it now? What can be done? Poor child.
Hari-sauri: They made them eat meat. My nephew used to refuse, so they used to force him to eat it.
Prabhupada: Just see, by nature refusing, and by force...
Hari-sauri: They they develop a taste. My mother said that I used to refuse as well, but then they made me. Now I got a taste.
Prabhupada: So in my childhood, when I was one and one-half years old, I suffered from typhoid, and the Dr. Karttika Candra Bose, he said that he, "Please give him chicken juice." So my father refused: "No, no, we cannot." "No, no he has to be given. Now he has become very weak." "No, no, I cannot allow." "Don't mind, I shall prepare in my own house and send. You simply..." So it was sent from his house, and when it was given to me, immediately I began to vomit. And my father threw it away, and when the doctor asked that this was the... "No, no, then don't bother." This story I heard. This allopathetic system of medicine introduced all these things in India. Otherwise they did not know.
Hari-sauri: What system?
Prabhupada: This meat-eating, chicken juice, tea, these things are unknown to India. No, why India? By nature, you say that you refused meat. Although you were born of a father and mother meat-eaters, still. What a horrible civilization they have made. He's human being born. Making him animal by culture. Instead of making him more cultured towards the spiritual life, making him redirected again to animal life. This is the civilization, Western civilization.
Hari-sauri: Yes, there's not much choice, not any choice.
Prabhupada: These children are fortunate. Yesterday I was astonished how these children were receiving just like friend, laughing and something saying, you have seen it? As an old friend. Their mother pushes they would not come, but they were very glad to see me.
Hari-sauri: Everybody's very glad to see you.
Prabhupada: I was astonished, that how these children take me as friend.
Hari-sauri: I don't think that's too difficult. You're the best friend for everyone.
Prabhupada: No, but after all, they are children. How they can take it as it is? So they are fortunate children, and their parents and everyone should take care of them. A very difficult age.
Hari-sauri: You always said they're our asset for the future.
Prabhupada: If they can be trained up, they can become very good preacher, each one of them. And they can make hundreds of devotees. In this way we can expand. Are you realizing that there is no civilization? Actually civilization we are introducing. Except Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization, there is no civilization--animal society. What do you think? Are you convinced about it?
Harikesa: Oh, yes, every time I walk out the door I'm convinced. And when you come back to the temple, it's marvelous, the spiritual world. No matter what going on, may be bad, may be good, doesn't matter. It's very relieving.
Prabhupada: Civilization means to push the man forward for perfection. That is civilization.
Hari-sauri: Development.
Prabhupada: Yes. Society and economic condition, everything should be so arranged that this human child should be gradually pushed for perfection of life, go back home, back to Godhead. This is civilization. And modern civilization is "Don't care for what is going to happen. So long you live, eat, drink, be merry, enjoy," that's all. Sense gratification. This is called nastika-vada. Very dangerous. And that is going on all over the world. How a gentleman can live in that society?
Hari-sauri: They can't. Gradually people...
Prabhupada: Therefore my Guru Maharaja used to say, "This is not a place for a gentleman." Formerly, therefore, they used to go away from the society, go in the forest, to give up this bad association. Live alone.
Hari-sauri: Practically speaking, that's what we've done. By your establishing these temples, it's given us someplace to go where we can get out of Kali-yuga.
Prabhupada: Therefore our temples should be very carefully managed. It may not become again another pandemonium.
Harikesa: Pan-demon. Pan-demon-ium.
Hari-sauri: Says that in the dictionary.
Harikesa: Place of demons.
Prabhupada: Krsna has given us many nice places. People can live very comfortably. There will be no scarcity. Cultivate Krsna consciousness very seriously. That is wanted. Therefore in this old age I am struggling so much to see that things are going on nicely. So far I have seen, it is going on nice. But maybe the management is lacking. It may be the maya is very strong. So be careful. All, you are all old students, and try to organize more and more solidly. The children should be taken, you can give lectures to the mothers, that children should be taken care of. They are future hopes. Child is the father of man. They say that we escape. What we are escaping? We have got all types of social society. There is grhastha, there is sannyasi, there is brahmacari. Whichever position is suitable, you accept and keep yourself sincere, that's all. Unnatural there is nothing. Is there anything unnatural? And if they think that we're prohibiting this meat-eating, this is unnatural, that we cannot. That is not unnatural, that is natural.
Harikesa: I notice these four things, they are very unnatural, these four sinful things, very unnatural.
Prabhupada: Unnatural, yes. What for smoking? What for drinking? How nicely they sit down on the ground and take prasadam. Why there is need of table, chair and these dishes and fork and knife and so on, so on? Why?
Harikesa: It's hard to cut the meat. You need a good surface. (laughs)
Prabhupada: Our Bon Maharaja, once I was eating in his festival and... He's a bara-sahib. So he has given fork and knife. (laughs) So I did not know, I do not remember even which way I took fork. So Bon Maharaja began to criticize "You are going to foreign country you do not know which hand to take this fork and knife." So I told him, "I am not going to learn all these things. I am going to teach them something else, to forget it. (laughter) You went to learn all these things. But I am not going to learn anything."
Harikesa: What did he say to that? (laughter)
Prabhupada: It was our...
Hari-sauri: He's following the line of Vivekananda.
Prabhupada: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Maharaja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyasi-politician." Because after returning from America, he began to preach to make the poor man rich, and these weak, fatty, and so on, exercise. So the government took it that he's, under the dress of a sannyasi, he's preaching social and political upliftment. So his name was recorded as "sannyasi- politician." And his name was also recorded, "political saint," Gandhi. After all, the British government, they were very intelligent. They could understand what is what. Otherwise, how they were managing this big empire? Very intelligent, there is no doubt about it. And actually they were intelligent. When they were managing, we were happy, actually. Nobody can deny it. Although they were exploiting. But nobody could understand. Everyone was feeling happy. And as soon as they left, everyone is unhappy. That distinction I can give evidence, I can, from my personal experience. Things were very, very nice. Calcutta, oh, it was so nice city. Now it is hell. It is same Calcutta. Why it is now hell? Hidden(?) garden, that was a nice garden. So... Everywhere hell, only hell. Calcutta was considered the nicest city in India, better than Bombay, but it has become now hell. The streets, especially those quarters in our temple.
Hari-sauri: I think Calcutta was voted the second dirtiest city in the world.
Prabhupada: Yes. Accha? Just see. And it was next to London. People used to say, "In the British Empire, first London, second Calcutta." And now it is...?
Hari-sauri: Second dirtiest city.
Prabhupada: And who is the first?
Harikesa: Karachi.
Hari-sauri: Karachi. (laughs)
Prabhupada: Both of them got sva-raja, Pakistan and India. That means after getting sva-raja..., Karachi was one of the first-class city, yes. They cannot manage. Unfit persons, they are on the top of government.
Hari-sauri: Seems everything is devolving at a phenomenal rate. Every decade that passes, everything breaks down twice as fast. Just in the last twenty years or thirty years everything has become so much degraded and...
Prabhupada: No, I have got experience. I am Calcutta born. What Calcutta was in our childhood days and what is now, I know everything. How we were happy during British days and what is now position, I can speak from my personal experience. We do not belong to the richest class nor to the poor class--middle class. So we have got practical experience. My father's income was not more than 250 rupees. How opulent we were. At least, there was no question of need. We were receiving daily four, five guests, and my father was functioning so many festivals and he was asking... My father gave in marriage four daughters. There was no difficulty. The income was not more than 250 rupees. Of course, that 250 rupees at least ten times now. But still, there was no needy. Not very opulent, but there was no need. The first necessity is to feed and to clothe. So there was no such scarcity. May not be very luxurious life, but there was no scarcity for food and shelter or cloth. There was no scarcity. Happy. That is wanted. Happiness in whatever circumstance. Not that because we did not possess a motorcar, therefore unhappy. I purchased one motor car in 1925, Buick car. Not for personal use, but for using it as a taxi. My one nephew, he was a good driver, so my father, "Why don't you give him? He can do that, we can use it our own car also taxi." So I took it, Buick car, I think I paid eight thousand rupees.
Hari-sauri: Buick?
Prabhupada: Buick, yes, very strong car. At that time, Ford, Chevrolet and Buick, these cars were very popular in India. Ford for the poorer class and Buick for the first class.
Hari-sauri: Your nephew was a taxi driver.
Prabhupada: Yes. Nephew was my sister's son. We had to maintain one sister and her family. She became widow. So this is Hindu family obligation. When the daughter is widow, she comes to the father's shelter with all family. The father has to maintain.
Hari-sauri: You wouldn't get that in the West. (laughs) They don't even maintain their own parents.
Prabhupada: On the whole, during British time, people were happy, that I can... The thing is that Britishers were little afraid that "If the government is not good, it will go against our credit, that we may agitate." So they were careful to see that people are happy. But here nobody's careful. Everyone thinks "I'm in my own country. Whatever I do, it is all right." They were conscious, that "We are foreigners. If the management is not good, then it will go against our credit and it will be difficult working such a big England empire." So they were little careful. But these rascals are not... Just like the governor, he was friendly, but what is the report? Did he say? Did not behave very nicely?
Harikesa: He wasn't interested to help for the tax exemption.
Hari-sauri: Yes, you told me before, Bon Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja, they were writing all these big, big men, but they told them frankly, that "I'm not going to do anything for you."
Prabhupada: None of them. Formerly, a British governor, secretary, was a friend. You could get some service from him. The Britishers they knew the etiquette that if friends ask some help, I must help you. That is etiquette.
Hari-sauri: Now there's so much self-interest, they don't...
Prabhupada: It is expected.
Hari-sauri: Still, due to the British presence, isn't that the main reason why India has become so degraded now?
Prabhupada: Yes, from...
Hari-sauri: Because they introduced so many bad things?
Prabhupada: Yes, from cultural point of view, they are degraded. And that was that British policy, to kill them culturally. Otherwise not possible to rule over them.
Hari-sauri: They always advertised that India was so backward because that was a justification for their being there, that "We shall go and educate."
Prabhupada: They used to advertise like that.
Hari-sauri: Then they could exploit and avoid criticism.
Prabhupada: Yes, so many bad things Britishers introduced. Bad things means Western type of civilization.
Hari-sauri: Sometimes people, they say, we're always glorifying Indian culture, so why are they so badly off? So we tell them it's because they've give up the culture that they're badly off. Otherwise, a hundred years ago there was no problem. (end)
Room Conversation
Paris, August 2, 1976
Hari-sauri: The whole country could be like this if everybody was Krsna conscious.
Prabhupada: Very peacefully you can live. In the city you go, thousands of cars are running--ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror. What is called? Flyway, expressway, downway, every ten yards stop for the light. (laughter) How artificial life. And with all these things, if people would have been happy, all right. But they're not happy, in spite of all this advancement.
Hari-sauri: Yes. Simply increasing their miseries.
Prabhupada: That's all. Problems.
Hari-sauri: The bigger the buildings, the more anxiety they're in.
Prabhupada: Not only many cars, they construct new roads, new... Increasing business, in the hope of happiness. But there is no happiness.
Hari-sauri: Happiness is the last consideration.
Prabhupada: They are thinking that "In this way we shall be happy."
Hari-sauri: Get more money.
Prabhupada: First of all, paved way, then flyway, then another flyway, then another flyway, in this way. Bahir-artha-maninah.
Hari-sauri: They're always striving for happiness, that's all. They never achieve it, they never get there.
Prabhupada: No. That is called maya. Just like the animal is running after the mirage, water, but there is no water.
Hari-sauri: He simply runs until he dies.
Prabhupada: That's all. This is going on.
Hari-sauri: Dogs on four wheels. (laughs) It was so nice sitting underneath the tree there, chanting. I was thinking, this is what we could do forever, twenty-four hours. No need to do anything else.
Prabhupada: Yes. (pause) Prospective place, this. Very future prospect.
Hari-sauri: Oh, yes. We're buying these big properties now, we don't have so many devotees, but we know just even in five years they're going to be packed.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hari-sauri: Maybe now we don't have so many devotees for all these big places we're buying, but even just in five years or ten years they'll be full. We'll have to expand more and more. Your idea for fifty percent for books, fifty percent for buildings is very wonderful. I remember in Caitanya-caritamrta you said that the book distribution and the establishment of temples should go parallel lines, side by side.
Prabhupada: Going on. Up to date, to my satisfaction, it is going on.
Hari-sauri: If you're satisfied, then we know it's going to be successful.
Prabhupada: But they fight amongst themselves, the GBCs.
Hari-sauri: Hm, that's the problem.
Prabhupada: I did not see Harikesa.
Hari-sauri: He was there.
Prabhupada: Oh, he was there?
Hari-sauri: Yes. He's been feeling a bit ill today.
Prabhupada: This is thyme herbs? No. This is the seed.
Hari-sauri: Oh, them. They grow it in the garden. The first, what you got, that was grown here. Those twigs? They were grown here in the garden. Would you like anything tonight? A piece of chavana-prash? (Harikesa comes in)
Prabhupada: What is that?
Harikesa: This boy brought this. I wanted to just ask you if this is any good or not. This is nutmeg oil.
Hari-sauri: This is the oil I was telling you about.
Harikesa: And this is Ax Brand Universal Oil, supposed to be for massages or something.
Prabhupada: Chinese?
Harikesa: (indistinct) This is Chinese.
Hari-sauri: It's got different..., says menthol crystal, peppermint oil, eucalyptol oil, menthol salicilate, oil of lavender, chloroform BP, camphor powder, and white oil.
Prabhupada: What is for?
Harikesa: Supposed to be for massaging.
Hari-sauri: It's supposed to help the muscles.
Prabhupada: And what is this?
Hari-sauri: Nutmeg oil. This is the one I was telling you about.
Prabhupada: They're all selling all this?
Hari-sauri: No, this is not ours.
Harikesa: Radhe-Syama dasa brought this.
Hari-sauri: It was brought by one of the devotees from--Thailand, was is?
Harikesa: He was in Kuala-Lumpur.
Hari-sauri: He says he bought it from a Buddhist temple, big Buddhist temple.
Prabhupada: Kuala-Lumpur? There is a big Buddhist temple I know, I went there.
Harikesa: He said in a letter, he just wrote a letter to you that... You laid a cornerstone in some temple? About three, four years ago?
Prabhupada: Kuala-Lumpur? Yes.
Harikesa: It's finished. It cost a million dollars. And he says this man wants to give it to us.
Prabhupada: Oh, something, that gentleman...
Harikesa: It's a rather nice letter.
Prabhupada: Written by him?
Harikesa: No, this boy who was there. I'll bring him tomorrow.
Prabhupada: So we can take it. Yes. This is nice idea. He has spent millions of dollars?
Harikesa: One million on the temple.
Prabhupada: Oh? How he got the money?
Harikesa: I don't know.
Prabhupada: Maybe he was rich man.
Hari-sauri: This was made in Penang.
Prabhupada: Penang also I visited. I stayed with one Indian gentleman. His wife made very nice kacuri.
Hari-sauri: It doesn't matter wherever you go around the world...
Prabhupada: They asked, "What you want to eat?" "If you can, you make first-class kacuri." That is from my childhood. My friends also did it. They'd make the first-class kacuris in my youthhood. I am fond of kacuri. Kacuri is made first class in Mathura. Agra and Mathura. Very, very nice. The kacuri is being made, hundreds of customers waiting. At shops, there was many shops, waiting for purchasing. And as soon as it comes out of the pan, immediately sold. There is no question of waiting. They make spice nicest. That is India's craftsmanship. Nobody will starve. If you have no business, you prepare something palatable, and people will purchase, all over India.
Hari-sauri: There's so many people on the railway station selling.
Prabhupada: There's no question of starvation for want of money. Anywhere sit down and do something palatable, and people will purchase. So your livelihood will go on. Pakora, kacuri, jalebi, anything. You make some palatable, people are fond of eating some palatable things. That is their hobby. In Allahabad, there was a brahmana. I had my business, and he was neighborhood, he was living. So in the morning, the husband and wife would go to take bath in the Ganges. They would very nicely take bath, and while coming they will purchase some ingredients and then come home. The husband will perform puja, etc., and the wife will prepare many nice preparations--bada, pakori, puskar (?), this, that. Then he'll take his meals, rest awhile, and in the evening he will sit down, he was sitting just in front of my shop, about four or five o'clock. All the preparations his wife had made whole day, and the small shop. And the university students will come up to night, ten o'clock, he'll finish. Nothing will remain. Everything will be... And he'll make at least ten rupees profit, minimum. In those days, 1925, in those days ten rupees means nowadays at least fifty rupees. So, and living very happy. Living humbly as a brahmana, he was having his puja, going to the Ganges, taking bath, husband and wife, in the morning, and the wife's business is to prepare and his business was to sell. So they'll make at least ten, fifteen rupees profit daily, very prosperous. Living peacefully, husband and wife. There are many such families. The... If wife is very good, then his home is very nice. They cannot be unhappy at any circumstances. Dampatyoh kalaho nasti tatra srih svayam agatah.(?) Canakya Pandita. When there is full agreement between husband and wife, cooperation, then the goddess of fortune comes there without application. You haven't got to ask goddess of fortune, "Please come and help me." She'll come automatically. This is Canakya Pandita's instruction.
murkha yatrana pujyante
dhanyam yatra susancitam
dampatyoh kalaho nasti
tatra srih svayam agatah
There are so many things in India culture for becoming happy and advancing towards the goal of life. Now I am appreciating for more and more, seeing the whole world, what is India's culture. Formerly I was thinking, "It is custom. To become faithful wife, this is custom." But when I come outside I see what is wife and what is faithful wife. In India, still, in the village, even there is fight between husband, wife, the wife is faithful. Still. Completely dependent on husband. The husband also, in spite of fighting, is always careful that the wife does not get any inconvenience. It was the culture, now it is breaking. (about door or window) You can close that. In material world, for peaceful life, there must be peaceful condition between the husband and wife. Everyone requires wife, everyone requires husband. Sex is necessary, so make the condition of sex very peaceful. Why disturbed? Make the condition that there will be... It is necessary. As eating is necessary, sleeping is necessary, for ordinary man, so sex is also necessary. So make a condition so that nothing will be disturbed, and in undisturbed condition of mind execute spiritual advancement. This is Indian civilization. Aim is spiritual advancement. And to make condition favorable, there are so many things. So unless we get favorable condition... Here in the Western countries there is no favorable condition. First of all, they have no idea of spiritual life, the goal of life, neither there is favorable condition. And gradually things are becoming degrading. On my last tour in Chicago I saw. In three weeks she has twice divorced, one lady's advertised. You remember it?
Hari-sauri: I wasn't there that time.
Harikesa: I remember.
Prabhupada: You were there, yes. Is that life? How they can be happy if this is the condition? So what further advancement?
Harikesa: In reference?
Hari-sauri: Tehran.
Harikesa: Oh, your tickets are definitely booked on the nonstop flight. I finally managed to...
Prabhupada: Take the ticket. Oh, we have got ticket.
Harikesa: The reservation, I mean... And if for some reason we can't get on that flight, we have reservations on another flight that arrives four hours later.
Prabhupada: That doesn't matter.
Harikesa: It changes, it leaves earlier and gets there four hours later. Was lunch all right today? Lunch? Your lunch was all right?
Hari-sauri: Was lunch all right? Prasadam?
Prabhupada: The potatoes and karela should be fried.
Harikesa: Yes, it was fried. I fried it with the cover on.
Prabhupada: No, not in the beginning. Fry it, and if it is still hard, then...
Harikesa: Then put the cover on. Oh, all right.
Prabhupada: Yes, not from beginning.
Harikesa: Oh, I made a mistake.
Prabhupada: If you cover from the beginning, the water which is already there will be coming out. And the idea is the water should be taken away. Then it will be tasteful. Still, it was good.
Harikesa: Should I cook if I still have this fever tomorrow?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Harikesa: Right now I have a fever.
Prabhupada: No, don't cook.
Harikesa: So if I have a fever I shouldn't cook for you? It's unhealthy for you? It won't bother me so much, but if it's unhealthy for you...
Prabhupada: No, no, I have no objection. But if you have got fever, why shall you? There are so many others. They can...
Harikesa: I cannot tolerate being sick any more.
Prabhupada: The body means sickness. The body itself is sickness.
Harikesa: In illusion I think I come back here, I get healthy. In illusion I think if I leave India and come here I will get healthy. But I come here I also get sick. I go there I also get sick. (laughs) You seem to be much better now.
Prabhupada: Yes, little better. Hare Krsna. (break) ...thinking of how to utilize the whole land. The situation is very good, good prospect. I want that self-independent here, as far as possible. But you have got enough materials. With woods you can make cottages. Then land becomes clear, then utilize it.
Bhagavan: Cows.
Prabhupada: Cows, so many things. Free from all anxieties, chant Hare Krsna. Life is meant for simply chanting. This should be the motto. But because we have got this body, we have to maintain it. That much. Otherwise, we have no ambition to become a very big man in this material world, enjoy it. This is all false, useless. He'll become a big man, and one day death comes and kicks him out. So these are all false attempts. It has no meaning. The meaningful life is, so long we live, become fully Krsna conscious. And tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti. That is wanted. Give facility to the people. Here is very nice arrangement. Now make plan how to utilize. You have got enough land. You can utilize for supplying the necessities of life.
Bhagavan: It's a very wonderful place.
Prabhupada: Yes. We can get many wonderful places like this all over the world. But they have not been taught how to utilize them.
Bhagavan: But I think in one year they have done nicely. They have built a greenhouse and planted all the cultivated land.
Prabhupada: No, they are working hard, there is no doubt about it.
Bhagavan: And the temple also, Deity worship and everything.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, things are going nicely. There is no doubt about it. And children should be given that much education--to read and write and chant Hare Krsna.
Bhagavan: The devotees are talking how nice it was to sit outside with you and chant and hear you speak tonight. I remember the last time I was in New Vrindaban many years ago, when I first became a devotee. You were sitting outside, giving some lecture, series of lectures on Vyasadeva and the Srimad-Bhagavatam.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, I like this life, from my very childhood. And on our roof there were trees, plants, flower plants, and... My grandmother, she... We, all grandchildren used to water it. So downstairs we took water in, what is called? A jhari?
Bhagavan: Sprinkling can?
Prabhupada: Ah, sprinkling can. We all grandchildren, we were about half a dozen. So we took very much pleasure in watering. But my special tendency was that along with the plants, I, with the bushes, I'll sit down. My tendency. And I'll sit down for hours. And like that. In my childhood. In my maternal uncle's house also, I was doing that. As soon as I find some bush, I make a sitting place.
Bhagavan: It's hard to see how people could not be attracted to such a nice life.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: But more and more people are coming.
Prabhupada: They'll come. First of all, this life is not for every man. Most fortunate man. Kona bhagyavan jiva. Kona, kona means someone; it is not for everyone. Kona bhagyavan. Find out this verse, Nineteenth Chapter, Madhya-lila.
ei rupe brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna-krpa paya bhakti-lata-bija
(devotees look for verse) Brahmanda bhramite? Guru-krsna. Find out. Guru-krsna-krpa paya.
Hari-sauri: Guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Hari-sauri:
brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva
guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija
"According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Krsna. By the mercy of both Krsna and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service."
Prabhupada: This is not for everyone.
Hari-sauri: There's a nice purport. Should I read the purport? "When we speak of brahmanda, we refer to the whole universe, or to the cluster of many millions of universes. In all universes, there are innumerable planets and innumerable living entities upon those planets in the air and in the water. There are millions and trillions of living entities everywhere, and they are engaged by maya in suffering and enjoying the results of their fruitive activity life after life. This is the position of the materially conditioned living entities. Out of many of these living entities, if one is actually fortunate (bhagyavan), he comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by Krsna's mercy. Krsna is situated in everyone's heart, and if one desires something, Krsna fulfills one's desire. If the living entity by chance or fortune comes in contact with the Krsna consciousness movement and wishes to associate with that movement, Krsna, who is situated in everyone's heart, gives him the chance to meet a bona fide spiritual master. This is called guru-krsna-prasada. Krsna is prepared to bestow His mercy upon all living entities, and as soon as a living entity desires the Lord's mercy, the Lord immediately gives him an opportunity to meet a bona fide spiritual master. Such a person is fortified by both Krsna and the spiritual master. He is helped from within by Krsna and from without by the spiritual master. Both are prepared to help the sincere living being become free from this material bondage. How one can become this fortunate can be seen in the life of Srila Narada Muni. In his previous life he was born of a maidservant. Although he was not born into a prestigious position, his mother was fortunately engaged in rendering service to some Vaisnavas. When these Vaisnavas were resting during the caturmasya period, the boy Narada took the opportunity to engage in their service. Taking compassion upon the boy, the Vaisnavas offered him the remnants of their food. By serving them and obeying their orders, the boy became the object of sympathy for the Vaisnavas, and, by the Vaisnavas' unknown mercy, he gradually became a pure devotee. In the next life he was Narada Muni, the most exalted of Vaisnavas and the most important guru and acarya of Vaisnavas. Following in the footsteps of Narada Muni, the Krsna consciousness movement is rendering service to humanity by giving everyone a chance to come in contact with Krsna. If one is fortunate, he becomes intimately related with this movement. Then, by the grace of Krsna, one's life becomes successful. Everyone has dormant krsna-bhakti, love for Krsna, and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya 22.107):
nitya-siddha krsna-prema `sadhya' kabhu naya
sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya
Dormant devotional service to Krsna is within everyone. Simply by associating with devotees, hearing their good instructions and chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, dormant love for Krsna is awakened. In this way one acquires the seed of devotional service. Guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija."
Prabhupada: Then? Then? No, it is not finished? Next verse?
Hari-sauri:
mali hana kare sei bija aropana
sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana
"When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of sravana and kirtana (hearing and chanting), the seed will begin to sprout." Purport: "To live with devotees or to live in a temple means to associate with the sravana-kirtana process. Sometimes neophyte devotees think that they can continue the sravana-kirtana process without worshiping the Deity, but the execution of sravana-kirtana is meant for highly developed devotees like Haridasa Thakura, who engaged in the sravana-kirtana process without worshiping the Deity. However, one should not falsely imitate Haridasa Thakura and abandon Deity worship just to try to engage in sravana-kirtana. This is not possible for neophyte devotees. The word guru-prasada indicates that the spiritual master is very merciful in bestowing the boon of devotional service upon the disciple. That is the best possible gift the spiritual master has to offer. Those with a background of pious life are eligible to receive life's supreme benefit, and to bestow this benefit, the Supreme Personality of Godhead sends His representative to impart His mercy. Endowed with the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master distributes the mercy to those who are elevated and pious. Thus the spiritual master trains his disciples to render devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called guru-krpa. It is krsna-prasada, Krsna's mercy, that He sends a bona fide spiritual master to the deserving disciple. By the mercy of Krsna, one meets the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of the spiritual master, the disciple is fully trained in the devotional service of the Lord. Bhakti-lata-bija means `the seed of devotional service.' Everything has an original cause, or seed. For any idea, program, plan or device, there is first of all the contemplation of the plan, and that is called bija, or the seed. The methods, rules and regulations by which one is perfectly trained in devotional service constitute the bhakti-lata-bija, or the seed of devotional service. This bhakti-lata-bija is received from the spiritual master by the grace of Krsna. Other seeds are called anyabhilasa-bija, karma-bija and jnana-bija. If one is not fortunate enough to receive the bhakti-lata-bija from the spiritual master, he instead cultivates the seeds of karma-bija, jnana-bija, or political and social or philanthropic bija. However, bhakti-lata-bija is different from these other bijas. Bhakti-lata-bija can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get bhakti-lata-bija (yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah). Bhakti-lata-bija is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bija, or root cause, of karma, jnana and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. However, one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-lata-bija. This bhakti-lata-bija is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called sravana-kirtana--hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting (kirtana). This is explained in Bhagavad-gita (2.41): vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-lata-bija after receiving instructions from the spiritual master." I remember in Hawaii, this section here, it says a person is fortified by both Krsna and the spiritual master, and you said that Krsna gives you the weapon and the spiritual master sharpens it, the weapon of knowledge, and in that way we can become free from material bondage.
Prabhupada: The classes should be regularly held. Those who are engaged in the field work, then let them work, but woman or others, they should hear in the class. They should attend.
Bhagavan: There is regular class for everyone in the afternoon after prasadam.
Prabhupada: That's nice. What they are saying now? (kirtana heard from downstairs)
Bhagavan: Downstairs? "Haribol." People cannot understand how just by chanting enthusiastic kirtana so many problems can be solved.
Prabhupada: Yes. What they understand, all rascals? Wasting time. Going to the moon planet, going to the Mars planet. Why? What you will gain? Still they are going. Simply spending money. In Bengal it is called ostadi. Ostadi, in English? One who places himself as very intelligent leader. What is called in one word?
Bhagavan: Presumptuous?
Prabhupada: Presumptions?
Bhagavan: Presumes he's something that he's...
Prabhupada: No, it is a very nice word.
Hari-sauri: An imposter?
Prabhupada: Imposter is falsely. It is not exactly false. Beginning with "p." Do you find there teacher? Teachers, other things?
Hari-sauri: Teacher?
Prabhupada: Teacher, and other synonyms. Find out the teacher. They have got so many synonyms.
Hari-sauri: Teacher. "Educator, instructor, preceptor, master, tutor, coach, schoolmaster, schoolmistress, schoolmarm, pedagogue."
Prabhupada: Pedagogue, yes, this word.
Hari-sauri: Pedagogy, how do you pronounce this word? Pedagogue.
Prabhupada: This word, now you see what is the pedagogue in dictionary. Pedigree. Pedagogue--pedagogue or predagogue?
Hari-sauri: Pedagogue. Here we are. "Pedagogue: schoolmaster, teacher." That's all he gives. "Pedagogy: science of teaching."
Bhagavan: "Employing pedantry." Look up pedantry. It says, "Usually derogatory."
Hari-sauri: Oh, "Pedant--one who overrates booklearning or technical knowledge or insists on strict adherence to formal rules. One always possessed by theory doctrinaire(?)."
Prabhupada: Yes, this word.
Hari-sauri: Pedant.
Prabhupada: Pedagogue?
Bhagavan: Pedagogue is the first, yes.
Prabhupada: What is the spelling?
Hari-sauri: P-e-d-a-g-o-g-u-e.
Prabhupada: Pedagogue. Not pedi, but peda.
Hari-sauri: Pedagogue.
Prabhupada: So they are going on, pedagogue.
Hari-sauri: And the other one is pedant, pedant. One who overrates booklearning.
Prabhupada: Pedantry, there is a... Our Harikesa was speaking that if they do not say there is life in Mars, then their whole propaganda will fail.
Hari-sauri: Yes, I was saying that this morning.
Prabhupada: This time, if they say that there is no life in the Mars, they'll never get next chance, he said. I think it is meaningful.
Bhagavan: It will substantiate our claim.
Prabhupada: No, our claim intelligent. They are loitering. Our claim is that they do not know anything about that. All foolish propaganda. But their position is that unless they say that there is life, then this false propaganda will no longer run on. We are certain that they cannot go there, neither is it possible to understand what is there, simply imagination. We do not give any credit.
Hari-sauri: You said you had some plan? For the land here? When we came in, you were saying you had some plan for the land.
Prabhupada: Plan is that we have got woods. Cut the woods, make small cottages, and engage them for growing fruits, flowers, grains, and make the complete arrangement nicely. Water...
Hari-sauri: Irrigation.
Prabhupada: In this way make it ever green.
Bhagavan: There was a question about the cows, that at what point should the calf be separated from the mother. Because sometimes when the calf is separated, the mother, she cries.
Prabhupada: No, they should not be taken away.
Bhagavan: Shouldn't be.
Hari-sauri: I think in all our farms they do that.
Bhagavan: I heard in New Vrindaban they took them away very early.
Hari-sauri: The problem is that the calves drink so much milk that they become very sick, so they have to separate.
Prabhupada: Therefore they should not be allowed always. Once in a day, that's all.
Hari-sauri: Oh.
Prabhupada: Not too much allowed, but once. At least while milking they should be allowed to drink little milk, and that will encourage the mother to deliver more milk.
Hari-sauri: Oh. At the same time they're milking the cow, the calf can come.
Prabhupada: Yes. They can bring it milk. And while milking, the calf may be standing before the mother.
Hari-sauri: They do that in India.
Prabhupada: So she will not be sorry. Completely separation is not good. And after birth at least for one week the calf should be allowed. Because after this giving birth the milk is not fit for human consumption. The calf should not be allowed to eat more, but at the same time the mother must see once, twice, then it will be all right. Of course, we are born in big, big towns, we do not know, but I know this is the process. In Allahabad I was keeping cow, there was facility.
Bhagavan: I don't think our farms are doing like that. In New Vrindaban they do?
Hari-sauri: What, letting the calves come? I don't think so. You can write a letter to... The whole system's so perfect, it's completely satisfying in every respect.
Prabhupada: And if you make others dissatisfied for your pleasure, that is sinful. You should act in such a way that nobody is dissatisfied. Then there is balance.
Hari-sauri: Expert management.
Prabhupada: You have got puffed rice?
Hari-sauri: They may have some in the kitchen, I can check. They have flat rice.
Prabhupada: No.
Hari-sauri: Puffed rice. This Chavana-prash, it says five to ten grams every morning with milk.
Prabhupada: With milk. Five to ten grams.
Hari-sauri: Yes, that's like a heaped spoonful. I think that's about what you're getting there.
Prabhupada: Whatever we take, that is five to ten grams?
Hari-sauri: Approximately. Maybe a little more.
Prabhupada: How much milk? It is not...
Hari-sauri: Doesn't say, it just says with milk. It's like according to taste.
Prabhupada: So in the morning. That's all right.
Hari-sauri: I'll go and find out about this...
Prabhupada: Puffed rice. (break)
Bhagavan: Zucchini?
Hari-sauri: This is zucchini? This?
Bhagavan: Yes. We should show Prabhupada each thing that we're doing. (break)
Devotee (1): These are flowers which decorate the vases, they are very tall. They put in the vases every day on the altar, Krsna, and this morning, taking garlands made out of this, smells very nice. Also the carnation. It was the one I gave you yesterday on your walk. It has a very nice scent.
Prabhupada: No, you have got this cucumber?
Devotee (1): Yes, there is cucumber.
Prabhupada: So if fresh, why not eat?
Hari-sauri: We have fresh cucumber every day.
Prabhupada: But when I take it does not appear to be fresh.
Devotee (1): These are bulk cucumbers.
Devotee (2): This is fresh cucumber from the garden.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): Tomorrow.
Prabhupada: The cucumber which is supplied to me, that is not fresh.
Devotee (1): It is from the market. We were not aware that they had cucumber in the garden, because I asked...
Prabhupada: You are not aware? Why not?
Devotee (1): I was not aware.
Hari-sauri: He's our supplier.
Prabhupada: At least one cucumber, and this chili, you can make a nice salad. You say that there's no peas?
Devotee (1): They are just ready actually, Srila Prabhupada. They're just ready for picking now.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Devotee (1): Beans you have had every day from the garden.
Hari-sauri: Beans are very stringy.
Prabhupada: Oh, so many fresh things.
Devotee (1): From the greenhouse they are actually.
Hari-sauri: What is this?
Devotee (1): That is zucchini, only very small. (laughter) We let them get big to feed so many devotees.
Prabhupada: Very nice, very fresh, so many things can be done.
Hari-sauri: This is zucchini?
Prabhupada: This called, this is, I do not know what you call. It is called komura.(?) It is very nice.
Hari-sauri: We used to call them marrows.
Devotee (1): Tomato. It's an Italian type of tomato, and there's another one.
Prabhupada: This is apple?
Devotee (1): Yes, that's for cooking.
Hari-sauri: Cabbage.
Devotee (1): Pears.
Bhagavan: They're growing chick peas. They're not ripe yet.
Devotee (1): You can see inside, inside the pod. They have to go yellow on the plant and then we pick them and then put them in sacks for the winter.
Bhagavan: We had a whole field planted of chickpea. They're very expensive here, so it's nice.
Prabhupada: So you have got immediately some pods?
Devotee (1): And also you have been taking the fresh coriander, dhane.
Prabhupada: Oh, nice. So, this pod?
Devotee (1): Peas, beans.
Prabhupada: You have got some?
Devotee (1): Yes, plenty, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Bring all them. (laughter)
Hari-sauri: He supplies us every day. What's this?
Woman devotee: This is lemon spinach.
Devotee (1): A type of sour spinach.
Bhagavan: Tastes like a lemon.
Prabhupada: Yes. Very good.
Bhagavan: Anything else hidden in here? This is our apple?
Woman devotee: Sweet peas.
Devotee (1): There's many varieties of flowers in the gardens, many flowers for garlands for almost the next two months.
Prabhupada: Grow more, more, all these fruits, flowers.
Bhagavan: This is from ours?
Woman devotee: Yes.
Devotee (1): Rose. We are growing 2,500... (break)
Prabhupada: Go and live happily. This is a...
Devotee (1): Pear.
Prabhupada: You have got puffed rice? So bring some this pod. I shall, with puffed rice, I shall take this.
Hari-sauri: How do you want them cooking?
Prabhupada: Yes, I'll take it. Let them bring.
Hari-sauri: Bring some now? (laughter)
Bhagavan: Glories to Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (break) Give Mandakini these peas. Tomorrow she can utilize it for kacuri. I've asked her to make kacuri. Let them use this.
Hari-sauri: They must have only just come ripe just this last week.
Prabhupada: So many things are growing. Puffed rice, you simply make it hot, dry, take it away, and then take some of the peas, put very little ghee and masala and some peas, fry it nicely. Then put little water and cover it. When it is soft, you can add with it little the green chilis.
Hari-sauri: These big ones?
Prabhupada: Yes. Not very much, but little.
Hari-sauri: These are not very hot, the big ones. The small ones are the hot ones, but we don't have any of those left.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Hari-sauri: Then mix them or keep them separate?
Prabhupada: No, keep separate. They should be very soft. And the puffed rice hot. Then mix with little ghee and masala. Then, I'll take little.
Hari-sauri: Jaya. (end)
